Automatic Lockers: Has anyone ever used them?

"Luc - The Acadian Oppo" (luc5) 01/15/2015 at 11:56 • Filed to: None

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I just recently found out about these and it's pretty much perfect for what I'm planning to do with the Lincoln. The Lincoln will only ever be a weekend toy and will not be a daily driver.

How it works:

The Locker mechanism allows a wheel to turn faster than the speed of the differential that is driving it (differentiation), but never allows a wheel to turn slower than the speed the differential and engine is turning it (traction). Therefore, a wheel cannot ever stop turning if the engine is driving it, but in a corner it can be forced to actually turn faster. Unlike a standard differential, the engine can never drive one wheel faster than the other.

100% positive locking

The Locker is positive locking, meaning there is no slippage when locked. There is a mechanically solid engagement of all parts. In contrast a limited slip differential is not positive locking and does allow slippage and one wheel "spin up" i.e. the spinning of one wheel at twice the differential speed while the other wheel having traction remains motionless. With the "Aussie Locker" you get 100% of drive and traction to both wheels.

This is a less expensive alternative to a limited slip and by the sounds of it, it looks better suited for the application I want to use it for. A weekend street/strip car. It looks like a WAY better choice than a spool(for street use) but I don't know much about them.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:00

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What happens if you lock the rear brakes? Does the engine stall?

HammerheadFistpunch > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:00

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There are 2 types:

1. the type that are locked unless there is a speed difference (aussi locker)

2. the type that lock with speed difference (eaton locker)

Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Were it me i would get a posi and preload the hell out of it.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:01

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SWEET FOR OFFROADING YER LINCOLN, BRAH.

No, but seriously, this is kind of an offroader type thing, but if it works it works.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 01/15/2015 at 12:02

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Rally Lincoln!

HammerheadFistpunch > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/15/2015 at 12:03

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torque converter

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > HammerheadFistpunch 01/15/2015 at 12:04

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Yep. Forgot autotragic.

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:08

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I hope you're good at hunting for those pull-through parking spaces. I'm guessing using reverse will no longer be an option.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:10

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I run a Powertrax Lok-rite in my Cougar and a Detroit Locker in my Mustang. Both are full locking units. Not only are they an alternative to limited slip, but considered a more durable piece as far as drag strip use is concerned. Spider gears are the weak link in a limited slip rear. Full lockers are devoid of them....

My Cougar's rear is a 7.5".......

Behind a motor with around 400 HP at the crank.....the powertrax for that particular rear is rated for 800 ft-lbs of torque. I can't imagine what the unit in my Mustang is rated for in the 8.8....Gotta be well over 1000.....

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 01/15/2015 at 12:12

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I was looking at the Auburn Gear which is the same setup as the aussie locker. I wanted the aussie but they don't make it for 28 spline only for 31 spline.

A posi is too much money and and unnecessary for what I'm trying to accomplish.

HammerheadFistpunch > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:13

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you could get a different yoke that was 31 spline if it helped. My cruiser has a different yoke on the front axle for this reason.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 01/15/2015 at 12:13

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nothing happens? it's really no different than a limited slip diff. just a different way to achieve the same results.

KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:15

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I haven't been very active on oppo recently, what kind of Lincoln? And yeah, an automatic locker probably would work for drag, but just be careful when pushing it around corners as there could be some odd, snappish power on oversteer characteristics when that thing locks. Could make for some wicked drifts when you get used to it, though.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 01/15/2015 at 12:15

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It's not the yoke that's the problem. The my axles are 28 spline and not 31. I'd have to swap out the axles in order to use the Aussie. I'm better off just getting the right one from someone else.

HammerheadFistpunch > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:17

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right, i see, the axle shaft splines, not the ring gear splines. my bad.

crowmolly > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:17

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You may get some "poppin and lockin" going around turns as it engages and disengages.

My $0.02:

You mentioned earlier that you want to upgrade to 31 spline axle shafts in the future. Don't buy a carrier until you can buy matching axles.

Can you REALLY not find a used trac-lok for the time being? You guys have a lot of trucks up in Canada, there's no junkyard that's got one you can use or rebuild?

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! 01/15/2015 at 12:18

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Good to know! I have a Ford 9" so it should be able to handle anything I can throw at it. That's why I'm considering this. It's cheaper than a limited slip,more durable,and quite frankly better for what i want to do with it.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb 01/15/2015 at 12:20

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1979 Lincoln Continental. I'll be making this into a huge 4door super sedan if you will.

nermal > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:20

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My truck has an auto-locker. It works great, but you do need a bit of wheelspin for it to engage.

Personally, for a road car / truck, the engage-after-wheelspin versions seem to be a better bet than the locked-until-you-turn versions. You don't notice it until you need it.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 01/15/2015 at 12:21

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Why couldn't you use reverse? that statement makes no sense.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! 01/15/2015 at 12:23

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I'm using a Jag Powr-Lok in my project, which is of course just a limited slip, but then I'm not turning out but about 1/2 the upper power limit of the unit. Also not planning on doing drags so much. I'm replacing a 7 1/4" Ford peewee axle with a super low ratio, so it wasn't terribly strong.

KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:23

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What engine will it have? Stock or something a little more spunky? Because if it's stock, with its nominally 159 HP, the locker would probably just be a waste of money.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > crowmolly 01/15/2015 at 12:26

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Not necessarily I said I would upgrade to 31's if I ever broke the 28's. What would you consider better? This or a spool?

I realise it might be poppin and lockin but it has to be safer than a spool don't you think?

Textured Soy Protein > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:26

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My Grand Cherokee has 3 electronic LSDs that can go to full lock and stay there as needed. So...yes I have sort of used a much more complicated version of this that doesn't actually behave the same way because the diffs are clutch packs that can slip, not just go from open to locked.

If you watch this video, the ones where it says "with QT2" have a center LSD + front & rear open diffs. QD2 is with all eLSDs. Notice how when the open diff/traction control Jeeps put a wheel in the air, it spins faster until the traction control applies a brake. But the eLSDs lock and the wheel in the air spins at the same speed as the opposite (and still on the ground) wheel.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > nermal 01/15/2015 at 12:26

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What brand locker do you have?

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:29

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Dammit...... I want it.....

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb 01/15/2015 at 12:32

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It is stock for now with the massive 159hp. but I don't intend to stay that way for long. I'm changing the gear ratio in the rearend right away and while I'm in there I want to take care of the open diff.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb 01/15/2015 at 12:32

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You actually have to really work at it for that to happen (read: hoon it HARD). Driving normally is a non-issue even in inclimate weather.

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:33

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If the differential allows the wheels to freely roll forward, then it will allow the driveshaft to freely turn backward, like the freewheel hub on a bike.

[EDIT: I think I'm wrong.]

KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb > V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! 01/15/2015 at 12:34

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"pushing it around corners" ;)

Party-vi > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 01/15/2015 at 12:36

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The locker should unlock during reverse and turn maneuvers.

KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:37

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Cool. What engine are you eventually hoping to put in? The bread and butter LsX or are you planning to keep it in the Ford family?

Party-vi > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:38

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*CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK*

Every time you make a turn. Unless you're losing traction (or intend to lose traction) when you mash the gas pedal there's no need to lock your rear wheels together.

nermal > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:41

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I have a new GM truck, so it has the G80, shown in the first video. Note that this one is designed mainly to make sure you get un-stuck in low speed scenarios. You might have problems if you intend to drive like an asshat and do burnouts and whatnot.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb 01/15/2015 at 12:41

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Even a half-hearted push won't do. You have to PUUUUSH!!!

KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb > V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! 01/15/2015 at 12:43

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oki I need to specify the intensity of all my verbs next time I post. Good to know.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > KillerRaccoon - Group J's Sébastien Loeb 01/15/2015 at 12:44

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You read my mind. LSx Turbo would be the ultimate goal but that might be a few years down the road.

NaturallyAspirated > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:44

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I put an Aussie Locker in the front diff of my XJ Cherokee, and it was great for that application. It made a quiet little "thunk thunk thunk" noise around corners when the transfer case was in 2WD but didn't impede street drivability in any way, and with the center diff locked it could practically pull the Jeep straight up a cliff.

That said, I don't know if I would want one of these in the rear of a vehicle I was planning on streeting. There would definitely be a learning curve figuring out how the locker reacted when under power, when coasting, and how it handled around corners. It would be much better than a spool though, and much cheaper than a Torsen (which is what I'd really want on a street vehicle), so if you're cool with some popping and chirping around corners, it might work for your needs.

crowmolly > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:45

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Sorry, I must have misunderstood.

This will be safer than a spool, yes.

Just going to throw this out there, too:

If your gearset is, say, $190 USD, and the install kit (with your bearings) is $60, and an Auburn Max Lok is $340 USD, you are at $590 and it's up to you to do the install.

For $820 you can get a bolt-in third member from Quick Performance. Quality hardware, 3.25 gears, 28 spline traction-lok posi. Built up and guaranteed to be quiet. And you are left with your stock 3rd member as a spare.

More money, yes, but another possible option.

With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username > Party-vi 01/15/2015 at 12:45

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Guess I misunderstood the concept. I likened it to the freewheel hub on a bike.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > crowmolly 01/15/2015 at 12:46

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Good to know I might look into that option.

XJDano > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:47

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I have one in the front of my XJ. Had one in the rear. It will likely work how you want, but the will be locking /unlocking going around corners, bucking around with power then letting off. You get used to it though. Buddy had one in a 5speed wrangler, he said it bucked around on highway and was not pleasent.

Party-vi > With-a-G is back to not having anything written after his username 01/15/2015 at 12:51

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Nope, or at least not my understanding of lockers. My dad has a detroit locker in the rear axle of his YJ and the most issue you have is it unlocking and re-locking when turning.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Party-vi 01/15/2015 at 12:51

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I figure *click click click* is better than *chirp chirp chirp SNAP!*

Party-vi > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:53

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If you plan to do any sort of twisty-race action with it I would not suggest a locker.

vondon302 > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 12:55

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Why not use an air locker. Turn it on locked axles shut it off normal driving. Forget who makes these but real popular on street strip cars.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > vondon302 01/15/2015 at 13:05

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This is a budget build and air lockers are muey expensive. that would be ideal but it's not in the cards right now.

Birddog > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 13:40

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I had it on the rear of my 79 Cherokee. I thought it was great. It did make a ratcheting noise on low speed turns bit otherwise worked well.

Definitely a better choice over a Spool on the street.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Birddog 01/15/2015 at 13:51

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That's what I like to hear. I'm still looking into my options. but I'll have something done in the next weeks for sure.

My biggest hurdle is the fact that I'm doing a re-gear at the same time. If it was just putting in a locker it would be 10 times easier. now I need new pinion bearings and seal and I need to get someone to adjust the preload. so instead of costing ~$350 for the locker now it's more like ~$700 once it's all said and done.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > XJDano 01/15/2015 at 16:34

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I want to make sure I understand since you've actually installed one before. Do you use the stock outer gears and just replace the 2 spider gears with the locker system?

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > crowmolly 01/15/2015 at 17:36

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I was just having a conversation with Mike from quick performance and the prices are pretty kick ass. A drop in center member is almost less than it would cost me to do it myself at home reusing the old carrier.

For about $100.00 more that it cost for parts I can get it fully assembled and ready to go can't go wrong with prices like that.

I'm still figuring out exactly what I want but mike was suggesting I use a spool for price and simplicity.

Hello Luc,

Thank you for the info. The most budget friendly unit will be a full "drag" spool. These units are also the strongest unit available. A lot of guys do run spools on the street with out issues. I do not suggest driving with a spool in bad weather. I also would note that cornering at low speeds can be difficult.

You are looking at:

$399 for a complete center section with a mini spool

$480 for a complete center section with an open diff

$525 for a complete center section with a HD drag spool

$820 for a complete center section with a clutch style trac lok posi unit

$945 with a worm gear style eaton truetrac posi unit

$975 With a detroit locker

Let me know how these prices sound and we will go from there.

XJDano > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 17:41

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No, replace everything.

There may be some thrust washers on the side spider gears, I swapped them over.

Here is the removal of the cross pin. In the Dana30 the pin won't come out without removal of ring gear. On the 9" it may slide out. I doubt it'll come with a new cross pin.

crowmolly > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 17:41

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Nice!

$100 is easily worth it when you figure you are sure the gears are set up RIGHT. Nothing sucks worse than going to the trouble of swapping gears only to have them be noisy when you are driving.

XJDano > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/15/2015 at 17:59

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You can ask around on some 4wd forums too, see if anyone is selling a lunchbox locker, but they usually get snatched up quick.

BJ > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 01/21/2015 at 09:01

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They're normally locked and operation is simple, see the Lokka (Aussie Locker) FAQ: http://lokka.com/site/faq . I read that they can be a bit tricky on the highway if you're not aware of how it works. This article sums up what I've read very nicely (emphasis mine):

On the highway, the average driver won't even know it's back there. I drove the vehicle up to Tahoe a week after installation, and it was working perfectly. If you are a very astute driver, one who understands what trailing throttle oversteer is and who knows how to subtly steer a car with the throttle on an offramp, you WILL notice that there is a locker back there. If you are driving, for example, on a freeway speed turn, application of moderate throttle will tend to "push" the truck to the outside , due to the fact that both rear tires are pushing at a constant speed, forcing the truck in a more "straight" line of travel. Back off the throttle quickly, and the locker disconnects and the nose will edge in. These tendencies are subtle, most people will notice that something is "different" but nothing is going to surprise anyone.

This would be an excellent choice for your project, and it's not terribly expensive. Nice manners on the street, full positive lock on the drag strip.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > BJ 01/21/2015 at 09:48

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That's what I was thinking. Thanks for the feedback. It really does seem like exactly what I'm after.